In the account given by George Laub, it still says Satan and others were not willing to keep their "first estate" which has usually been pretty consistently understood as a premortal existence, as far as I'm aware. That may indicate the "grand council" called by the "head of the gods" was a council of spirits for the population of this earth and not a grand council of gods across different worlds. And we are Gods, according to Christ. So is the God of Gods mentioned referring to a God over other exalter Fathers, or a God over other gods in embryo?
Just a thought. I don't have an answer.
On the other hand, and significant to me, is the Endowment ceremony has Lucifer appear as a brother of Adam and Eve, and we know Brigham Young who believed in the Adam-God Doctrine taught that Adam was the God and Father of Jesus Christ, which would make Lucifer the uncle to Christ and not his brother. I give enough credit to Brigham to not think this was an oversight (though maybe this part was changed with the removal of the Adam-God doctrine in 1905 to reflect what is more mainstream now?) Some of the accounts have Luficer reply to Elohim and Jehovah that he is only doing "what we have done on other worlds" meaning he was giving the fruit of the tree of knowledge as he had done before, presumably under different circumstances.
Are there two devils? One a brother to Adam and one a brother to Christ?
George Laubs journal says the Sons of perdition became devils, and Brigham Young taught the same thing.
Also I've pondered, what does "Son of the Morning" mean? Son of the Morning of the First resurrection? That would mean Lucifer, at least one of them, was a resurrected being.
Is it possible that spirit-first estate- Lucifer (brother to Christ) got the idea to rebel from consulting with other older powers of darkness (brother to Adam) whom had already become Satans? I think its necessary that there are Devils for each world, but does there have to be a war in heaven before each world? I don't know, that may have been an exception and not a rule.
I love your thought about sons of the morning … I’ve wondered the same thing and never gotten anywhere with it but that makes sense. It’s just that he’s an exulted being because those who rise in the morning of the resurrection are those who are exulted, not those of the lesser. Very interesting.
also, Orson Pratt accused Brigham Young of teaching that Jesus was resurrected before coming here. I have at least a quotes that suggest that you have to be a Christ before you can be an Adam. If that is the case, then your speculation about a council of God‘s over spirits, would not be necessary… Although very creative and interesting.😃
I finally completed your Adam/God reference and really appreciate how much work you put into compiling all the statements made in the early church on the topic and it all makes sense yet the mainstream LDS Church dismisses it.
I also read Ogden Krauts book on Michael/Adam this week and listened to your fantastic insights on the Mormon Renegade Podcast #133 on Joseph Smith's forgotten teachings.
I love that you are organizing all of this incredible information because it there really is so much for us all to learn. I'm a big fan now!
🙏🏻🙏🏻 Thank you. I’m always super happy to hear my work is making a difference for someone.
There are free audio previews of The Forgotten Teachings here on substack and you can listen to free previews of chapters that are otherwise only in the paid subscriber sections.
Wow - lots of thoughts. In an eternal scheme of things, the term brother seems to be used loosely, not only referring to fellow believers but also family members with a common ancestor (in this case, Adam-God) so maybe there is no contradiction as you read…
In the account given by George Laub, it still says Satan and others were not willing to keep their "first estate" which has usually been pretty consistently understood as a premortal existence, as far as I'm aware. That may indicate the "grand council" called by the "head of the gods" was a council of spirits for the population of this earth and not a grand council of gods across different worlds. And we are Gods, according to Christ. So is the God of Gods mentioned referring to a God over other exalter Fathers, or a God over other gods in embryo?
Just a thought. I don't have an answer.
On the other hand, and significant to me, is the Endowment ceremony has Lucifer appear as a brother of Adam and Eve, and we know Brigham Young who believed in the Adam-God Doctrine taught that Adam was the God and Father of Jesus Christ, which would make Lucifer the uncle to Christ and not his brother. I give enough credit to Brigham to not think this was an oversight (though maybe this part was changed with the removal of the Adam-God doctrine in 1905 to reflect what is more mainstream now?) Some of the accounts have Luficer reply to Elohim and Jehovah that he is only doing "what we have done on other worlds" meaning he was giving the fruit of the tree of knowledge as he had done before, presumably under different circumstances.
Are there two devils? One a brother to Adam and one a brother to Christ?
George Laubs journal says the Sons of perdition became devils, and Brigham Young taught the same thing.
Also I've pondered, what does "Son of the Morning" mean? Son of the Morning of the First resurrection? That would mean Lucifer, at least one of them, was a resurrected being.
Is it possible that spirit-first estate- Lucifer (brother to Christ) got the idea to rebel from consulting with other older powers of darkness (brother to Adam) whom had already become Satans? I think its necessary that there are Devils for each world, but does there have to be a war in heaven before each world? I don't know, that may have been an exception and not a rule.
I love your thought about sons of the morning … I’ve wondered the same thing and never gotten anywhere with it but that makes sense. It’s just that he’s an exulted being because those who rise in the morning of the resurrection are those who are exulted, not those of the lesser. Very interesting.
also, Orson Pratt accused Brigham Young of teaching that Jesus was resurrected before coming here. I have at least a quotes that suggest that you have to be a Christ before you can be an Adam. If that is the case, then your speculation about a council of God‘s over spirits, would not be necessary… Although very creative and interesting.😃
There are so many possibilities.
I finally completed your Adam/God reference and really appreciate how much work you put into compiling all the statements made in the early church on the topic and it all makes sense yet the mainstream LDS Church dismisses it.
I also read Ogden Krauts book on Michael/Adam this week and listened to your fantastic insights on the Mormon Renegade Podcast #133 on Joseph Smith's forgotten teachings.
I love that you are organizing all of this incredible information because it there really is so much for us all to learn. I'm a big fan now!
🙏🏻🙏🏻 Thank you. I’m always super happy to hear my work is making a difference for someone.
There are free audio previews of The Forgotten Teachings here on substack and you can listen to free previews of chapters that are otherwise only in the paid subscriber sections.
God bless.
Wow - lots of thoughts. In an eternal scheme of things, the term brother seems to be used loosely, not only referring to fellow believers but also family members with a common ancestor (in this case, Adam-God) so maybe there is no contradiction as you read…